In this episode of Innovators Inside Podcast, Ian Bergman sits down with Jennifer Charbonneau, SVP Operations and Supply Chain of Cache Energy, to talk about what makes transformation actually stick.

Jennifer has spent her career across engineering, operations, safety, supply chain, innovation, and AI adoption. Along the way, she has seen some change initiatives take hold and others require constant pushing.

Here are the five key takeaways from their conversation:

1. Start With a Clear Goal

One of Jennifer’s biggest lessons is simple: people need to know what they are actually trying to achieve.

“Use AI” is not a goal. Neither is “be more innovative.”

A transformation needs a clear outcome that people across the organization understand. If the vision only exists in leadership’s head, it becomes much harder for everyone else to make good decisions around it.

This matters even more with AI, where new tools appear constantly. The goal should come first. The technology comes after.

2. Trust Is What Lets Change Move Faster

Leaders often want transformation to happen quickly, but trust and buy-in take time.

Jennifer saw the difference immediately after moving into a startup environment. At Cache Energy, much of that trust was already there. That meant the team could move faster without spending as much time convincing people to come along.

For larger organizations, that foundation has to be built.

The answer is not to stop moving until everyone agrees. Jennifer’s approach is to keep making progress while building trust underneath the work.

3. Small Wins Build Real Momentum

Big transformations can take a long time. People still need to see that something is working.

Jennifer likes to start with a problem people already have. Maybe it is a manual process, a spreadsheet, or something that wastes hours every week.

Solve that problem and people feel the value immediately.

That small win may not be the final goal, but it builds credibility. People talk about what worked. Other teams become interested. Momentum starts spreading without leadership having to constantly push it.

4. Don’t Use AI Just Because It’s New

There are endless AI tools to choose from, which makes it easy to get distracted by whatever looks impressive.

Jennifer’s advice is to work backward from business value.

What are the biggest problems in the organization? What are the top priorities? Where could AI genuinely make a difference?

She has also found that the strongest AI outcomes come from pairing the technology with people who already know the work deeply.

The person does not need to be an AI expert. They need to understand the problem.

That combination of domain expertise and the right AI tool is where Jennifer has seen some of the most useful results.

5. High-Risk Work Still Needs Innovation

Innovation gets harder when mistakes have serious consequences.

Jennifer has spent much of her career in environments where safety, reliability, and large capital investments matter. Her approach is not to avoid experimentation. It is to change how you experiment depending on the risk.

Low-risk areas give teams more room to test quickly.

Higher-risk areas need more safeguards. That can mean simulations, off-site testing, extra reviews, more documentation, or additional safety layers.

The important point is that “high risk” should not automatically mean “do not innovate.”

It means you need a better process for doing it responsibly.

Transformation Is Still About People

A lot of this conversation comes back to the same idea.

Transformation may involve AI, new technology, new processes, or new business models, but people still determine whether the change lasts.

Jennifer even keeps a reminder near her desk to slow down and focus on the people.

For leaders who naturally want to move fast, that can be difficult. But moving quickly is not very useful if the rest of the organization is not moving with you.

The strongest transformations create a clear direction, show people early value, build trust, and use technology where it genuinely helps.

That is when change stops feeling like something leaders have to keep pushing and starts becoming part of how the organization works.

Have a question for a future guest? Email us at innovators@alchemistaccelerator.com to get in touch! 

Timestamps

00:00 What Does It Take to Make Transformation Real?
01:40 Jennifer Charbonneau’s Journey to Cache Energy
03:15 Why Change Moves Faster Inside a Startup
09:02 Lessons From Operations, Safety and Innovation
11:20 Why One Transformation Worked and Another Didn’t
14:00 Where Transformation Efforts Break Down
17:01 Building Trust While Still Moving Fast
19:04 How to Innovate in High-Risk Environments
24:57 Why AI Pilots Fail to Scale
27:14 Choosing AI Based on Business Value
29:55 Why AI Works Best With Human Expertise
32:55 Why Transformation Is Really About People
34:49 Building a Career Around a Clear Goal
37:45 Creating Momentum Through Small Wins
39:12 Rapid Fire
41:11 What Jennifer Would Tell Her Younger Self

Full Transcript

00;00;00;01 - 00;00;21;14
Ian Bergman
What does it actually take to make transformation real? Not in a startup built from the ground up for change, but inside one of the most complex, high stakes industries there is. Welcome to innovators. Inside, I'm Ian Bergman, and every episode I sit down with the founders, investors and innovation leaders actually doing the work of innovation, not just talking about it today.

00;00;21;19 - 00;00;47;02
Ian Bergman
Guest has lived that introductory question for over 20 years. Jennifer Charbonneau started her career as a field engineer in Bakersfield and climbed to the executive ranks of Cord Energy, a roughly $10 billion and gas company where she built teams bringing AI and data science into daily operations. This year, she made her boldest move yet, leaving the corporate world for Cash Energy, a startup working on long duration energy storage.

00;00;47;04 - 00;01;10;27
Ian Bergman
We're going to talk about why transformation breaks between strategy and execution, how to bring people along instead of dragging them, and what it takes to innovate when mistakes have real consequences. And maybe a little bit of why she traded a $10 billion industry for a startup. There's a wonderful personal thread here, too. Jennifer's whole journey started with a young woman's determination to earn her own independence, and we want to get to that.

00;01;11;01 - 00;01;14;12
Ian Bergman
So, Jennifer, welcome to Innovators Inside.

00;01;14;15 - 00;01;15;23
Jennifer Charboneau
Thanks, Ian. Happy to be here.

00;01;15;24 - 00;01;35;07
Ian Bergman
Oh, really excited to have you on the pod. This is going to be this is going to be a fun conversation. And I think, you know, for folks that don't know, we've gotten to know each other through a number of innovation oriented interactions over the years. But what good time to be recording this podcast, because you're kind of doing some, some personal innovation of your own.

00;01;35;07 - 00;01;38;12
Ian Bergman
With a recent career switch, you're excited to talk about that a little bit.

00;01;38;13 - 00;01;40;03
Jennifer Charboneau
Absolutely, yes. That'd be fun.

00;01;40;06 - 00;02;03;03
Ian Bergman
You've spent your career helping established organizations adopt new ways of working. Right now you're at Cash Energy. You're at the frontier of new technology. Tell me a little bit about how you got there, but also what excites you most about helping scale in emerging technology versus what you've done in the past?

00;02;03;05 - 00;02;33;17
Jennifer Charboneau
Absolutely. So what I'm excited about for being at Cash Energy is being able to grow and continue to build something over time and see that growth, see the change, see the impact that we can have, which I know can be huge and currently since starting there. I think one of the key things I've seen is just the rate that we can change is so fast.

00;02;33;19 - 00;02;46;23
Jennifer Charboneau
So when I, when I came into Cash Energy, I think what I noticed was that the trust and the buy in, which is usually a huge piece of making change, was already built and it was there.

00;02;46;24 - 00;02;48;24
Ian Bergman
And is that cause it’s a startup?

00;02;48;26 - 00;02;49;10
Jennifer Charboneau
Yes.

00;02;49;12 - 00;02;51;21
Ian Bergman
It just kind of comes with the territory.

00;02;51;24 - 00;02;52;25
Jennifer Charboneau
It was there.

00;02;52;26 - 00;02;53;13
Ian Bergman
Incredible.

00;02;53;14 - 00;03;07;19
Jennifer Charboneau
And being able to walk into that and experience it and be able to make changes quickly and immediately or even make, you know, maybe even.

00;03;07;21 - 00;03;15;06
Jennifer Charboneau
Again, like doing new things. We can do those very rapidly. And so having that foundation is super exciting to me.

00;03;15;07 - 00;03;15;24
Ian Bergman
Yeah.

00;03;15;25 - 00;03;33;05
Ian Bergman
And how is leading change in this environment? I know it's early days, but how does it seem different from what you've done in your past? And maybe you can kind of, you know, bring in some of the some of the stories or some of the career beats that you've had in the past to draw this comparison.

00;03;33;06 - 00;03;58;24
Jennifer Charboneau
Yeah, there's a couple of things here to where I can bring a lot of those learnings into this environment with me, such as even when you're looking at goals and creating a strong goal, a strong vision, and those pieces are the same, you you still want to have those and have everyone be on the same page to be driving and focused on those parts and pieces.

00;03;59;01 - 00;04;23;13
Jennifer Charboneau
Like I said, the trust and the buy in, which is usually a big piece of time that you spend on those when you're starting to make a change or do a transformation that's already there. So being able to skip over that and focus on the goals, focus on what we need to change to get there over time. Just smush is the time that it takes to create a change, which is is amazing.

00;04;23;15 - 00;04;30;23
Ian Bergman
How is the concept of leading change evolving for you?

00;04;30;26 - 00;04;58;00
Jennifer Charboneau
So I think over time it becomes more natural once you've tried and done it, some number of times it becomes more natural, but you're also at the same time looking for new ways to to help people. When you're when you're first leading change, it's very at least for me, it was very rigid. I started to try to do step one, step two, step three.

00;04;58;03 - 00;05;21;09
Jennifer Charboneau
Now you realize you can do a few steps at the same time, or you can also take bigger leaps or smaller leaps, but you're really focusing in on others, not the things you're doing, but what's working for other people. And you're continually looking for that feedback. But again, it does become more natural over time, and it feels like you can have better success with change over time too.

00;05;21;11 - 00;05;21;20
Ian Bergman
Well.

00;05;21;20 - 00;05;47;15
Ian Bergman
It is really interesting. I mean, I know for a fact because they tell me a lot of the audience of this podcast are people who are sitting inside of large corporations thinking, you know, maybe I could drive the change I want in the world better in a startup. It's a very, very different environment. Any surprises in your first your first chunk of time?

00;05;47;17 - 00;06;12;10
Jennifer Charboneau
I think again, and sorry to be a broken record, but I was not. I wasn't walking in expecting to see the the team collaboration, the the trust between folks and even the trust towards me walking in to the situation or walking into the company. And I mean, that was a huge surprise in a really positive way.

00;06;12;11 - 00;06;13;17
Ian Bergman
I mean, that's.

00;06;13;17 - 00;06;29;15
Ian Bergman
Awesome, right? And as you know, as an investor, as somebody who works with startups, it's one of the things that we hope to see. You don't always see it, but you need you need everybody pulling in the same direction, right? You literally you cannot have a system or that that trust doesn't exist. So I'm really excited.

00;06;29;20 - 00;06;40;00
Jennifer Charboneau
I think just the overall sense of drive from from the team, along with this deep curiosity, there's a it's a really great combination.

00;06;40;01 - 00;06;41;26
Ian Bergman
Yeah. Well, and it's a.

00;06;41;26 - 00;07;01;06
Ian Bergman
Combination that needs to, you know, that needs to be there because you're trying to deliver on a tough mission and new change. Can we just, you know, nerd out on the technology for just a minute? Like what is long duration energy storage, right. Like, I assume this isn't the battery that's in my laptop here.

00;07;01;08 - 00;07;32;04
Jennifer Charboneau
No. So what what we create is, is a little bit differential. And I'll talk about I'll talk about that first. So one of the things that we set out to do was really focus in on economics. And we really wanted to make this cost effective for folks to be able to utilize. And so the product that we create really uses a lot of off the shelf components, along with limestone.

00;07;32;06 - 00;07;54;09
Jennifer Charboneau
And and so it's a super unique combination. And what we're doing is storing energy in, in limestone. So we were able to store it. And the cool thing about this is again, you said a nerd out. So here we go. But we store it in chemical bonds. And so in those chemical bonds, you have no loss of energy storage.

00;07;54;09 - 00;08;06;18
Jennifer Charboneau
So you can store them for hours, for days, for months. And it retains that that energy. And it produces when you go ahead and do the next part of the reaction it produces heat.

00;08;06;19 - 00;08;34;19
Ian Bergman
So this is okay. So this is really cool because like I mean I have no idea what the audience is familiar with, but I'm familiar with things like you can melt some material and create a bunch of magma. That's or it's going to cool off from molten salt, etc.. I'm familiar with. You can use gravity and drag giant concrete blocks or water pumps and all kinds of interesting things.

00;08;34;22 - 00;08;52;16
Ian Bergman
All of them have associated energy loss. They have associated challenges in infrastructure and things like this. It sounds like this is the first time I've ever heard the concept of storing energy and chemical bonds, which is cool.

00;08;52;19 - 00;08;58;26
Jennifer Charboneau
It's really cool. And that's a big I mean, the technology itself was a big driver for me to to want to join.

00;08;58;27 - 00;09;02;18
Ian Bergman
Yeah. Well, okay. So, you know, let's talk.

00;09;02;18 - 00;09;26;09
Ian Bergman
A little bit more about your journey to get here and some of what you learned along the way. Right. And I think, you know, as we've talked about, you began your career as a field engineer and you ended up leading operation safety, supply chain and innovation and transformation organizations. You know, looking back, what experiences have most shaped how you lead changed today?

00;09;26;11 - 00;10;03;28
Jennifer Charboneau
So the first the first piece that I, that I think about is that wide experience across different sorts of engineering roles, different operation roles seen different operations. So different areas, different teams. So, so really getting to understand that work again, that that breadth of work and then later on after, after all of that and having that base understanding, it really came down to for me a couple of opportunities to lead change.

00;10;04;01 - 00;10;19;09
Jennifer Charboneau
And I was given them almost at the same time. One was to create innovation in the organization. And one was to work on and create safety and continue the safety culture in the organization.

00;10;19;10 - 00;10;33;27
Ian Bergman
Which, by the way, I don't want to interrupt, but it's it's amazing because the first time we ever had a conversation, I feel like I keyed in on the same thing. Those feel like their attention. And I think we're going to maybe talk about that like.

00;10;34;00 - 00;10;41;20
Jennifer Charboneau
I think they're they're at tension in some ways, but I think that they're also very useful together.

00;10;41;21 - 00;10;42;23
Ian Bergman
Amazing.

00;10;42;26 - 00;10;49;21
Jennifer Charboneau
And and so I think it's a good it's a good mix. Yeah. You want me to delve into that now or.

00;10;49;28 - 00;10;54;23
Ian Bergman
No, no. Continue. Continue your narrative. I think that's a good thing that we're going to we're going to dive into.

00;10;54;25 - 00;11;19;23
Jennifer Charboneau
Okay. Fantastic. So so I started working on those and I was just plodding along doing my own thing on on each one, I was working with the teams, I was working with the people in the organization and coming up with steps and ideas of what we could do, working on process changes, maybe changing the metrics that we're measuring, trying to do rewards or different pieces.

00;11;19;24 - 00;11;39;11
Jennifer Charboneau
And what I found at the end of that was the safety one was super sticky. We had phenomenal results and it worked. I could step back and it just ran all on its own. It was beautiful and the innovation one was not so sticky. I had my hands in it every day. I felt like I was pushing it continuously.

00;11;39;11 - 00;11;58;14
Jennifer Charboneau
There was never a step back moment. There's a moment in all change where it's like you're pushing a snowball up a hill and at some point you can't do that forever. It has to start rolling down the other side on its own. Right. And in the innovation, one that I was working on at the time, years ago, that never really happened.

00;11;58;16 - 00;12;34;11
Jennifer Charboneau
And so the next thing that really led to me learning more about transformation and change was after those two or during those two, I was really fortunate to be able to take a course over at Wharton. Greg Shay was the can I say that? I guess I can, the instructor and I, I'm an engineer, so I'm taking this course and I think, you know, it's halfway through the first day and we're at lunch and I'm over in some corner trying to do an a, a root cause analysis on why one of these things worked, the safety one and why the innovation one just wasn't quite sticky enough.

00;12;34;12 - 00;12;50;09
Jennifer Charboneau
Yeah, and I didn't I haven't shown you this before, but I have and I don't think you can see it very well, but I this this was it. And this was like seven years ago. I don't carry papers around. I don't have much in here. But this is in my file drawer.

00;12;50;10 - 00;13;07;06
Ian Bergman
For folks who are listening. By the way, Jennifer just held up a packet, a thick packet of paper binder clip together with a whole bunch of like what looked like sticky notes and markups and like, you know, yeah, this is a this is a thing. This is an artifact.

00;13;07;08 - 00;13;38;10
Jennifer Charboneau
It really is. And it points out with what I had learned at the course, why one of them was really sticky and why one wasn't. And it really touches on utilizing all of these different change components. And the more that you do, the stickier gets and the less the less sticky. It's quite simple once you take a look at it and and once once I did that root cause analysis, I knew what I was going to do the next time, right?

00;13;38;11 - 00;13;48;09
Jennifer Charboneau
And I was able to take that back and feed those changes into every transformation initiative going forward. It just it made it just it hit home.

00;13;48;11 - 00;13;58;09
Ian Bergman
You had a playbook. Yeah I did yeah. The process maybe is actually a better a better word if I'm being, you know, from an engineering perspective.

00;13;58;12 - 00;13;59;27
Ian Bergman
But it does beg.

00;13;59;28 - 00;14;28;19
Ian Bergman
The question. Right. You know, lots of organizations have ambitious transformation and innovation goals. Right. And as as you've said, there are you can do a cause analysis on why things aren't working. You can build kind of playbooks and process, but, you know, no plan really does survive contact with reality perfectly. And so in your experience, where do these transformation efforts most often break down?

00;14;28;19 - 00;14;32;13
Ian Bergman
And what keeps momentum alive?

00;14;32;15 - 00;15;00;10
Jennifer Charboneau
So as far as the first question, I one of the key things is having a strong goal vision that everyone understands. So it can't just be in the leader's head of what I'm looking for or what someone at the organization is looking for. It's got to translate into everyone at the organization, or everyone who is affected by the change or going to be affected.

00;15;00;10 - 00;15;22;14
Jennifer Charboneau
Understanding what that is and why it's important. And and that's a huge piece I think that often gets overlooked is, is everybody understanding what we're trying to do and is there even a goal stated. Right. I mean, be safe. That's not a goal or a vision statement. Use AI or don't use AI. That's also not a goal or a vision statement, right?

00;15;22;15 - 00;15;49;00
Jennifer Charboneau
So having that clear for everyone is just so important. And then the other piece that often gets, I think, overlooked or one of them is obtaining by in in trust. It takes a while. And when you want to have a change, usually there's something driving that change and you want it yesterday, not six months or four months or a year from now.

00;15;49;00 - 00;16;07;17
Jennifer Charboneau
And so overlooking that by an in trust phase is something that is time consuming and takes a bit of death. And folks don't always, you know, whether they skip it or don't realize they're skipping it. It's a key piece. Yeah.

00;16;07;20 - 00;16;08;20
Ian Bergman
Well it is it is.

00;16;08;20 - 00;16;38;15
Ian Bergman
Really interesting. And I know and you've talked a couple of times about buying and trust and other guests have as well. We had a guest, John Michael Shirt, who talked deeply about the necessary to necessity to lead change through creativity and trust rather than authority. But the interesting thing is, you know, it is it a temptation? And have you seen that temptation in executives you've worked with to sort of fall back on authority and command and control?

00;16;38;16 - 00;17;01;19
Ian Bergman
Because, yes, we need this thing yesterday. Like I'm going to dictate how it's. How it gets done. So have you seen that temptation? And do you have any advice for listeners who are maybe trying to balance taking the time to build the the trust, to bring the people along with the need to get things done yesterday.

00;17;01;21 - 00;17;44;06
Jennifer Charboneau
For sure. And I think that tension is always there. I don't think I've seen a case where we had the time for buying and trust, right? So showing small wins while gaining buying and trust and showing your trajectory trajectory of where you think you're going and at what time you'll get there is super important having. And that doesn't necessarily go to the whole organization that may just go to leadership and aligning them on that, but showing where that trajectory is going to be in six months or a year and then showing some small wins now, well, underneath it all you're working that by in and trust piece is what I have found to work the

00;17;44;06 - 00;17;44;24
Jennifer Charboneau
best.

00;17;44;24 - 00;17;46;03
Ian Bergman
Yeah I think that's really.

00;17;46;03 - 00;18;12;26
Ian Bergman
Good. Advice because what you've done just to play it back is you've really separated the project in front of you from the infrastructure underneath it. Right. The, the buy in and trust is really that foundational infrastructure that you can continue to move. I like that framing actually. And I think it's maybe something that others with an engineering mindset might be able to use to separate, like, you know, feature from architecture.

00;18;12;28 - 00;18;15;09
Ian Bergman
Well. So I want.

00;18;15;09 - 00;18;16;07
Ian Bergman
To pick up.

00;18;16;09 - 00;18;53;21
Ian Bergman
One of these threads we poked at just a few minutes ago. And that's the thread of, you know, innovation, change management and transformation and how that intersects with acts intention with or not was safety. And I call back like, you know, in a in a prior conversation with you, I had to kind of sit back and go, wow, when you were telling me about the scale that, you know, in one of the energy firms you were working at earlier in your career was operating at, right, hundreds of operators visiting thousands of wells every day.

00;18;53;24 - 00;19;02;14
Ian Bergman
And, you know, the consequences of a safety lapse at that scale can be catastrophic, right?

00;19;02;16 - 00;19;03;29
Ian Bergman
And so.

00;19;04;01 - 00;19;21;26
Ian Bergman
You know how when you're operating in environments like that. How do you create room for experimentation, which is the necessary underpinning of transformation? Innovation? In my mind, when safety and reliability are just non-negotiables.

00;19;21;28 - 00;19;57;14
Jennifer Charboneau
What I like to do or look at it as is separating out the different risk components. So a lot of our operations are low risk environments, and in those places people can be more free to experiment to to try new things, to be curious. And so helping people understand the low risk areas where all of that can take place and you don't have to get, you know, so much time taken or bogged down and you can freely experiment.

00;19;57;14 - 00;20;13;06
Jennifer Charboneau
There is is really important because you don't want to hold that back. And then looking at the higher risk areas and it's still an area that you want to innovate, right. If if it's if it's safety, you want to become innovative on safety. You want to continue to get better. Yeah. So it's.

00;20;13;11 - 00;20;16;16
Ian Bergman
That feels like an important point.

00;20;16;18 - 00;20;44;17
Jennifer Charboneau
Yes. It's super important to have both of those things together. But then having folks understand that this is a high risk area and that we have to take more precautions, we have to do more risk assessments. We may need to involve more people or take more time and do some calculations or do trials. Right. And so separating that out, understanding what those are, ensuring others understand that too is really key to progressing innovation.

00;20;44;17 - 00;20;48;12
Jennifer Charboneau
And understanding the innovation is still important in those areas as well.

00;20;48;14 - 00;21;08;14
Ian Bergman
Okay, so I like I like this framing right. Like identify the low and high risk areas within your sort of innovation box. And you can experiment and iterate in low risk. But there's a there's a temptation there that I've seen which is to say, you know, go experiment. Sure. Go experiment in the low risk areas. What are the low risk areas?

00;21;08;16 - 00;21;39;05
Ian Bergman
I don't know, like the cafeteria vending machines is our low risk area, right. And our ERP is a high risk area. Stay away from that. So I guess the follow on question is. How do you how do how would you suggest people identify the low risk areas in the low risk projects in the area that actually matters, right.

00;21;39;07 - 00;22;12;20
Jennifer Charboneau
So these might be two different questions I'm not sure. So all all all start in one area. But to really dig in and identify the the low risk and high risk areas and separate those out and not have everything become a high risk or a low risk, I think you really have to have alignment and some blunt conversations, and the different teams and groups need to lay everything on the table and decide these are actually low risk and high risk.

00;22;12;20 - 00;22;42;25
Jennifer Charboneau
And I've been involved in some conversations over my career like that as well. And so really separating those out in a way that people can use them and then letting folks know what those are. And then I think you had asked more about how to experiment in, in the low risk area and possibly like what to do for experimentation or what specifically were you getting out there?

00;22;42;26 - 00;23;09;14
Ian Bergman
Well, it's really it's really I you know, I'm less worried about how to experiment in the low risk areas. I'm more I'm more worried about how to avoid the temptation to say, you know, great. The things that actually matter are high risk. So I can't experiment there at all and just get stuck, right? Like, I mean, maybe we'd call back to your stories about you said something really important.

00;23;09;14 - 00;23;28;05
Ian Bergman
Innovation and safety is a thing, and you're kind of like, you know, step back and like, of course it's a thing. But also it's a high risk thing at the high level. So how do you find the low risk thing you can innovate on in safety so that you can then, you know, take the lessons into the high risk area.

00;23;28;08 - 00;23;47;02
Jennifer Charboneau
So I'm not sure it has to go that that way. I think the like when you separate them out, you'll have some things here. And it's not like it goes from low risk or you take them into the high risk. You may need to make changes for safety in high risk areas where you cannot play in the low risk.

00;23;47;02 - 00;23;52;08
Jennifer Charboneau
Now you can demo it, you can take it off site. You can do a lot of things in a yard to practice.

00;23;52;09 - 00;23;55;14
Ian Bergman
There you go. Simulations like all kinds of things. Yeah.

00;23;55;15 - 00;24;04;05
Jennifer Charboneau
You can put additional safety layers in while you're trying something new so that you don't have additional risk. So it's not so it's.

00;24;04;05 - 00;24;30;07
Ian Bergman
Not it's not like low risk. First take lessons into high risk. What you're saying is that there's a framework where if you're deliberate about categorizing your problems in, you know, as low risk and high risk, then you understand sort of the options set in front of you and the resources are going to be required, right? Like as you say, in a high risk area, you'll probably want a, you know, sandbox or simulation environment or something off site.

00;24;30;09 - 00;24;46;12
Jennifer Charboneau
For sure. And it's super similar. Even if you're looking at it from like a capital perspective, you'll look at it from a high risk capital or a low risk. Is this something that I can go tinker with and it has no impact? Or is this something that I'm going to make a change and it's going to have a large capital impact?

00;24;46;12 - 00;24;56;15
Jennifer Charboneau
So it's this, you know, lower risk can play around higher risk just needs more process, more protocols, more eyes on it, maybe more calculations or documentation and things like that.

00;24;56;17 - 00;25;26;14
Ian Bergman
Got it. No, it makes total sense. So, you know, building on some of your lessons from the past, right? I mean, I think one of these things we all know is everyone's piloting AI, but the percentage of pilots that actually get embedded in real business process is small. From your experience, what actually separates a transformation or innovation pilot that dies from one that gets embedded, that fundamentally changes how work gets done?

00;25;26;15 - 00;25;47;08
Jennifer Charboneau
I think, again, the first step is having that goal or that vision or what is the value. And I'm going to say value. In the case of AI, there are so many products out there on the market. I come from an ops and supply chain background, and I'm working in a certain area, and I may have ten suppliers to pick from then being thrown into AI, I think.

00;25;47;08 - 00;26;11;18
Jennifer Charboneau
I don't know if Gartner had estimated some 80,000 or 90,000 number out there. It was, it was it was ridiculous. I'll have to go back to really quote it for sure. Don't don't take my word for it. But it was something really high. So going from somewhere where you have, you know, ten suppliers in an area to this number of suppliers, it starts to get very confusing and it starts to get hard to focus on that value when there's so many new things popping up.

00;26;11;18 - 00;26;35;10
Jennifer Charboneau
But one of the key things is not picking something because you think it may work, or because it looks like it might be really new and novel. More fun. But does this tie with the value that I'm going after? And because again, as an AI leader, you need to know what's out there on the market. You need to be aware of it.

00;26;35;10 - 00;26;55;27
Jennifer Charboneau
But then being super picky and super choosy about knowing that this will then provide value if it if it works, if you're trying something new, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But knowing that if it works, it will. And what value is that creating and where does that stack out for your organization? Right. What are the top value drivers for your organization?

00;26;55;28 - 00;26;59;29
Jennifer Charboneau
Top three. And that's what you should be going after with the AI.

00;27;00;06 - 00;27;14;08
Ian Bergman
And this is homework stuff like that's I think maybe that's what people sometimes miss. Like this is homework slash pre-work slash the things you need to do to maximize the chance of success ahead of time. Right.

00;27;14;13 - 00;27;42;08
Jennifer Charboneau
100%. And it's really understanding what the organization needs. Yeah. Across all of the different like groups or teams and possibly across the different like levels, you you still may need to do that by and work up front, right. Like say a couple of years ago, a few years ago, folks weren't necessarily coming and saying, I really want to use AI.

00;27;42;10 - 00;28;07;15
Jennifer Charboneau
And so maybe they are now, maybe they're not depending on who they are, but getting that by in and doing some pre-work and doing some small stuff that doesn't necessarily 100% tied to the value. You might have to do that first as you're going towards that goal of value and tying the bigger projects, the the long term pieces that you're working on to that value and not not skewing from it.

00;28;07;15 - 00;28;16;05
Jennifer Charboneau
And with AI, it's super easy to get off course of that value you're going after because of the number of things that are out there that are so cool.

00;28;16;07 - 00;28;41;24
Ian Bergman
Well, that's right, they're cool. And it it amplifies what I would think of as a, you know, human desire to just experiment and play. Play is probably the best word. Like, I feel like a child, like a child, like joy using AI half the time, right? I was like, oh, look what I can do, right? Which is fun, but, but, but maybe, maybe need some guardrails.

00;28;41;26 - 00;28;50;26
Jennifer Charboneau
Yes. But yeah. So really focusing in on on that that goal and not not diverging from it okay.

00;28;50;27 - 00;28;54;16
Ian Bergman
So you know if it's okay I want to.

00;28;54;18 - 00;29;36;09
Ian Bergman
Just get into a little bit of I don't know if this is like, you know, future predicting, but just a little bit of pontificating a bit because I think this is important as you're talking about the role of people in, in transformation. You know, we had a we had another guest, Jeff McQueen, on the podcast not that long ago who made a futurist argument that managers jobs right at all levels are going to be evolving into orchestrating AI alongside people out in the field on a well pad or in the office.

00;29;36;11 - 00;29;54;20
Ian Bergman
Do you think that I mean, do you see that vision holding up? Do you do you see that people are starting to think about AI as this collaborative toolset, or are we still in the in the realm of let's see what it can do. You know, for me, like a traditional tool.

00;29;54;23 - 00;30;31;02
Jennifer Charboneau
So it's definitely a collaborative toolset for sure. I'll go that route with you when I think about it. The best, like the best projects or the best outcomes that I've seen with AI to date is a combination of someone with great experience working with a great AI tool. Yeah, and that's where I've seen the most value. And it's not that the person needs to have experience in AI, experience in something that's driving.

00;30;31;02 - 00;30;42;08
Ian Bergman
Value, expertise and experience. Like they know they they know their shit. Excuse my language. All right. Like, you know, and and they're getting amplified. Okay. That makes sense.

00;30;42;10 - 00;30;46;07
Jennifer Charboneau
Yes. Yeah. And I worked in the field. So like, those terms are good with me.

00;30;46;08 - 00;30;51;10
Ian Bergman
So I can I can curse on a well pad. That's good to know.

00;30;51;12 - 00;31;20;28
Jennifer Charboneau
Oh yeah. Yeah. We can go out there and and we can curse. No problem. But yeah, it's that combination that I've seen really drive value because you have the people with ideas and maybe the problems that they're having today and they're looking for a solution. And when they pair some of those things where they've got ideas, they may have tried something before and they work on something, you know, with their knowledge, with AI, I've seen some very powerful outcomes.

00;31;20;29 - 00;31;27;23
Jennifer Charboneau
Yeah. And and that's, that's where I'm going to that's where I'm going to sit this one at for sure.

00;31;27;24 - 00;31;52;01
Ian Bergman
For sure I love it. And I mean, we're all we're all on a learning journey here with AI. I'm actually just really curious, is there anything about AI or maybe more explicitly, the adoption of AI that you believe two, three, four years ago that maybe has changed that either trying to lead it in the real world changed your mind about or just the world has not changed.

00;31;52;03 - 00;32;20;10
Jennifer Charboneau
So I think when I go into every transformation or change initiative, I know they're all going to be similar but different, just based off of past experience. And so when I entered AI, that was not my background. So I didn't have any preconceived notions about like, if you give me an Ops challenge to change efficiency or drive safety or change something across the supply chain, that I would have had ideas in my head about how that was going to go.

00;32;20;11 - 00;32;54;18
Jennifer Charboneau
Yeah. So I was a blank slate three years ago with AI, had done a little bit of computer programing. At some point, fiddled with stuff, but the AI was new and it was it was something I had not read up on as much. And so I just dove right into it. I started studying, I connected with a gentleman at the company I worked with, and he had a lot of knowledge, started going to different things like conferences or summits with him, and started meeting more people, branching out, really trying to get an understanding of what it was.

00;32;54;19 - 00;33;14;17
Jennifer Charboneau
So I didn't have any sort of starting point to make a decision like that. All I had were the tools for change, knowing that it takes all of these steps, these different like lovers, that you need to move to be able to help people through it. And so for me, it was less about AI and more about helping people.

00;33;14;17 - 00;33;41;07
Jennifer Charboneau
And that's what really propelled and drove almost all the other changes. And I wonder if not having a background in AI actually helped, because when you are immersed in a, in a technology, and as I started to work through the technology side in AI, it does become less about people and more about that technology. Whereas for me it was like any other change initiative and it's about the people.

00;33;41;09 - 00;33;46;16
Jennifer Charboneau
Yeah. And how do we move that along in this new technology that I'm also learning about?

00;33;46;17 - 00;33;50;29
Ian Bergman
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. A little bit of a little.

00;33;50;29 - 00;33;52;18
Ian Bergman
Bit of naivety.

00;33;52;20 - 00;34;01;18
Ian Bergman
Goes a long way when you're trying to learn, right? You don't have those preconceived notions. You're not. It's not about the technology, it's about what you're trying to accomplish. I want to.

00;34;01;22 - 00;34;02;13
Ian Bergman
I'm going to use that.

00;34;02;13 - 00;34;26;19
Ian Bergman
As a launchpad to, you know, some of your other lessons. And I want to I want to actually dig back into your sort of approach to your career in the world. Right? I mean, so I'm going to I'm going to take you way back. But your journey into engineering didn't start because you wanted to be an engineer. As I understand it, it started because you, as you told me, you know, you're like, what?

00;34;26;20 - 00;34;49;04
Ian Bergman
Actually, I just I need financial independence. And that was a driver. And there were some real hurdles and setbacks along the way. So I wonder if you can tell us a bit about that and how those early experiences shape how you approach, you know, novel areas now or help you help teams, you know, work through uncertainty.

00;34;49;06 - 00;35;15;25
Jennifer Charboneau
So when. Yeah, when I was 11 is when I decided to become an engineer and it was around wanting that financial security, I didn't really care for the situation that I was in and wanted to change that. And this I'll kind of break this up. This goes back to our goal, our vision, our strategy. At the time when I was 11, I thought I only needed math and science, so I stopped studying everything else, which was a mistake.

00;35;15;28 - 00;35;34;27
Jennifer Charboneau
But I had a vision, I had a goal, I had a strategy and and eventually, eventually got there, you know, put together the booklet of what classes I needed and all of those things. Right. Which would be like the tools, the techniques, all of these different change lovers that we talked about and really drove for that clear goal.

00;35;35;00 - 00;36;01;04
Jennifer Charboneau
And that goes back to making sure that people have a clear goal, if you know what that is, even if it's hard along the way or you have struggles, you can still get there if you have that vision and that goal. Yeah. And then kind of breaking into that where, yes, there were hurdles, there were struggles. And I was not the best at math or at science, but that kind of goes back into when you are helping people through a change.

00;36;01;04 - 00;36;27;28
Jennifer Charboneau
They don't have to be the ones making it first to get there. You can be the one who's at the very back and you can still get there. It doesn't. It doesn't matter what pace you go at to make the change, just as long as you're moving in that direction and focused on where you're trying to go. There's things, there's tools, there's learnings, there's all of those different pieces that we can we can do for folks throughout an organization.

00;36;28;00 - 00;36;51;17
Jennifer Charboneau
And and then kind of honing in on helping people. And that, again, if there's a struggle, if there's a hurdle, I had multiple people help me along the way. A couple of them I knew, a couple of them I did not know, and the things that they did to help me achieve that goal, I will, I will never forget and will be grateful for and we'll always want to help others.

00;36;51;17 - 00;37;05;03
Jennifer Charboneau
And so when people do have a struggle with achieving a goal at the organization, how can we help them? What would provide them the support they need to make that next step, or get to that next stopping point or next point along the line to the goal?

00;37;05;03 - 00;37;38;27
Ian Bergman
There is a very real thread here of like admirable persistence, but also to your point, like vision, like, I think it's a rare 11 year old who can sit down and say, you know, I know what I want in my future. And it doesn't even have to be right. That's a rare thing. But, you know, do you do you feel like in these, in these conversations with your teams and the teams that you're working with, you're able to, like, help them really get that concrete vision of where I want to go.

00;37;38;29 - 00;37;44;21
Ian Bergman
And I guess and I guess the question is, is, is how like what's your favorite tactic to accomplish it?

00;37;44;24 - 00;38;28;09
Jennifer Charboneau
So I love to understand a problem or a challenge or a hurdle that they have. And that's where we try to tie solving that with the goal. So if we go back to the AI example, it is around if people have spreadsheets or some manual process and it doesn't even have to be AI, it could be, you know, just an automation, but helping them solve that, freeing up a day which isn't the overall goal, but helping them see how it's positive and how it can work is just it just buys you so much momentum and the trust building and that that by in layer.

00;38;28;11 - 00;38;47;29
Jennifer Charboneau
And so that's really where I like to start. And in cases of organizations, you don't necessarily even have to do that for everyone. People will share with others how great this was for them and that that word, that momentum starts to spread. Now you might get more people knocking on your door to help them, which which is what happened.

00;38;48;00 - 00;38;55;09
Jennifer Charboneau
But but it's just a really phenomenal way to get started is how can you help them with a problem they have today.

00;38;55;12 - 00;39;12;20
Ian Bergman
That's that's amazing advice. You know, that might be a nice lead into a little bit of our game. And that game is rapid fire. Questions I'm going to ask you a couple quick questions. And I just want you to kind of off the top of the dome. Let me know what your thoughts are going to start with the easy one.

00;39;12;27 - 00;39;20;08
Ian Bergman
If I if you could teleport right now to any one location to get inspiration for your work, where would that be?

00;39;20;10 - 00;39;27;05
Jennifer Charboneau
Wherever the bottleneck or the problem is, I, I love to, I love to find out where it's at and then try to fix it.

00;39;27;11 - 00;39;36;06
Ian Bergman
Like you're like you're like straight into the like, MBA operations textbook, like, right where that bottleneck is. Drop me onto that page.

00;39;36;09 - 00;39;37;23
Jennifer Charboneau
Absolutely.

00;39;37;25 - 00;39;57;13
Ian Bergman
That's exciting. You know, usually I get like, oh, there's a beach that inspires me. And I like to, you know, I want to go swimming with manatees or hiking in the mountains. I really I like that approach. All right, well, let's jump to the next one. What's a phrase or a mantra that you find yourself repeating often when at work?

00;39;57;15 - 00;40;19;19
Jennifer Charboneau
Absolutely. So I have a sticky note at my desk all the time. When it falls off, I write something similar on it. I'm a natural driver. I like to go fast, but you don't. You don't get very far on your own when you look around and you're the only one there, it doesn't do you any good. So throughout my career, I've continued to learn, and what it says is to slow down and focus on the people.

00;40;19;19 - 00;40;24;23
Jennifer Charboneau
Or it's about the people making sure you're going at the pace of others, not the pace that you might desire.

00;40;24;25 - 00;40;26;23
Ian Bergman
Yeah, that's.

00;40;26;25 - 00;40;36;26
Ian Bergman
I think that's for a lot of the Type A's in the world. Probably some pretty sage advice if we're being honest, and I love that. So you keep it on a sticky note like on your monitor.

00;40;36;28 - 00;40;40;03
Jennifer Charboneau
Yes. Or on my laptop. Yeah. It travels.

00;40;40;04 - 00;40;40;18
Ian Bergman
Wow.

00;40;40;25 - 00;40;53;23
Ian Bergman
That's so cool. That's so cool. All right, well. And so just just one more. And this one's a little out of left field, but I just thought of it like, you know, Baker's field or the boardroom. Where do you feel like you learned more?

00;40;53;25 - 00;41;10;14
Jennifer Charboneau
Oh, there's such different lessons. But I mean, definitely that learning curve out of school when you get that first job. I think that is when you soak up and learn the most. It's just a huge leap. So I'll go Bakersfield.

00;41;10;15 - 00;41;39;05
Ian Bergman
Okay. Incredible. That might be a nice lead. In to the last question I want to ask you today, Jennifer. And that is, you know, if you're looking back at the young field engineer, right, first starting out in her career is there, you know, what would you what would you tell her about the career that she's about to have and about the lessons learned along the way?

00;41;39;07 - 00;42;06;09
Jennifer Charboneau
Wow. That is a that's a big question. And you know, there there's always points in like in throughout my career where you have a lot of stress or anxiety or you feel like they'll be setbacks and maybe I don't maybe I didn't need to fill all of those things along the way that that's that's one for me for sure.

00;42;06;12 - 00;42;29;02
Jennifer Charboneau
And, you know, I think another one to is those those moments that do get tough just knowing that they're going to lead to something good. Yeah, they almost always do those tough times, those hard times. And it might be yourself. It might be a team, but there's generally a learning or takeaway or something that you end up using later that it's just so worth it.

00;42;29;04 - 00;42;47;21
Ian Bergman
It's just so worth it. I. Yeah, I love that. Well, this has been a fascinating conversation. And next time you come on, I want to nerd out way deeper on long term energy storage, because it's so clear that there is so much possibility that I think most of us don't actually know about. So we'll do that next time.

00;42;47;21 - 00;42;59;11
Ian Bergman
For folks who want to follow you on your journey, stay in touch. What's the best way to keep in touch? Are you on LinkedIn? Should they head over and check out Cash Energy? How would you like to stay connected with the audience?

00;42;59;14 - 00;43;09;04
Jennifer Charboneau
LinkedIn is a fantastic way. I'm checking that every day or two. So happy to reply to messages and then reach out from there with either a phone call or emails to amazing.

00;43;09;05 - 00;43;17;06
Ian Bergman
Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for coming on innovators inside and sharing your story and your lessons. Really appreciate it and I can't wait to talk to you next time.

00;43;17;08 - 00;43;21;26
Jennifer Charboneau
Thank you. Ian really enjoyed the conversation today and looking forward to talking to you again soon. Cheers.